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TRUTH AND RECONCILATION COMMISSION
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TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION

DAY 3 - 24 APRIL 1996



CASE NO:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;CT/00800

VICTIM:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;ALBERT M KOPOLO [son]

VIOLATION:&#9;&#9;&#9;KILLING

TESTIMONY FROM:&#9;&#9;NOKIKI GWEDLA [mother]

&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;

DR BORAINE:

The next witness that the Commission will hear is Nokiki Gwedla and Albert Kopolo and Id ask them to please come forward. I am just waiting until the witnesses have the earphones on their head, they dont need them. She doesnt want it.

CHAIRPERSON:

And what about - mamma.

DR BORAINE:

Okay, Ms Gwedla can you hear my voice in your earphones and the translation, Xhosa?

MS GWEDLA

Yes.

DR BORAINE:

You can, Id like to welcome you to the Commission, is that better. All right once again on behalf of the Commission I want to welcome you and your son and I assume that your son will not be wearing the earphones but will follow the proceedings.

&#9;Ms Gwedla the first thing I have to do is to ask you to take the oath, and Id be very grateful if you would please stand.



NOKIKI GWEDLA&#9;&#9;&#9;Duly sworn states



DR BORAINE:

Thank you very much will you be seated please. I also have to ask Albert Kopolo to stand please for the taking of the oath.



ALBERT KOPOLO&#9;&#9;&#9;Duly sworn states



DR BORAINE:

Please be seated. Ms Gwedla can you hear me all right - all right now you have a very painful story to tell [indistinct] but one of our Commissioners [indistinct] she is going to [indistinct]

MS GWEDLA

Thank you.

MS GOBODO:

Good morning mamma, after Dr Boraine has welcome you too, I also welcome you too. Before I can start to talking to you, I am going to brief the house about what happened during that time, during the time Zongisile was injured. It was by our research department and I am just going to read briefly what they report - what was reported on the events of November 1985. This reports that:

In late November 1985 local security forces began to go on the offences in Crossroads and surroundings, squatter camps with crime prevention rates, signalling the beginning of a long hot pursuit. To flush out what was called militant activist in these areas.

They did so according to what the spokesperson of the police force at the time to identify those involved in the recent unrest.

At least two violent incidents occurred in the vicinity of the Old Nyanga Home Affairs office new Crossroads in late November 1985. The shootings occurred during what was called a crime prevention operation in the squatter camps.

&#9;Now these incidents may be associated with what happened to Zongisile in 1985 of November. Mamma I am going to greet you again, I know mamma that we had to bring your case forward because your son wasnt quite comfortable for being here.

&#9;We are grateful to - for you to agree to come to us. Firstly mamma could you please tell us about Zongisile what kind of a child was Zongisile before this accident?



MS GWEDLA

He came here in January to come and look for a work. He called me to Cape Town and he was a good child he was working.

MS GOBODO

Where was he working?

MS GWEDLA

I dont know this places, but it was somewhere near Guguletu end of Tape 12, side A  

MS GOBODO

Is that where he built his house?

MS GWEDLA

Yes he built a shack at Crossroads.

MS GOBODO

While he was working was he living at Crossroads?

MS GWEDLA

When I got here he was living at a certain house.

MS GOBODO

But now he was told to go and built a shack at Crossroads.

MS GWEDLA

Yes thats what he did and I joined him there. 

MS GOBODO

Could you please tell us as you were living in the rural areas, and you - and Zongisile was working what kind of a role did he play, was - did he support you in any way.

MS GWEDLA

He dropped out of school and then he had to go and look for work. Now when I heard this heart condition that I have, he told me to come and join him. I stayed with him for two weeks, the third week - on the third week he was shot. 

MS GOBODO

Yes mamma we will get there, but now seeing that Zongisile called you to come to Cape Town that shows us that he really took care of you, is that correct?

MS GWEDLA

Yes it is.

MS GOBODO

He was your son who use to stay in the civals in town, he decided for you to come over to live with him in Cape Town. Did he take you to the doctor?

MS GWEDLA

Yes he did, that doctor was at Heideveld, from there I had to go again to Guguletu.

MS GOBODO

In other words mamma your life was being taken care of by Zongisile?

MS GWEDLA

Yes.

MS GOBODO

Now when did that change?

MS GWEDLA

All that changed when he was shot.

MS GOBODO

Now your roles were reversed now you had to take care of him?

MS GWEDLA

Yes.

MS GOBODO

Mamma please take us back to November when this incident happened. Just tell us how you see this, what happened give us a description of all this.

MS GWEDLA

That morning I was preparing to go to the clinic, he told me to wake up he had to go to work. And I was suppose to go to the clinic at Crossroads. From Crossroads I was suppose to come and get my check-up from the doctors. He told me that he was preparing to go to work, he said you go to the clinic Ill go to work.

&#9;Another girl called Nomsa arrived at home, he told me that come your son doesnt know how to speak anymore, he has been shot. This girl took me with a Kombi that time I didnt even know this places, he took me to the sit, I saw him, yes he was shot.

MS GOBODO

Please mamma tell us what did you feel what did you see when you saw him?



MS GWEDLA

We went to [indistinct] with the car, we arrived at the same time with the car that had him, I was asked to give these people his name. I saw - I showed him his card - his clinic card. I told them his name is Amos Kopolo. 

MS GOBODO

Its all right mamma you dont have to be worried, we understand that you have to go through this pain again. If you want us to wait mamma yes we will.

MS GWEDLA

While I was still at Groote Schuur, one of the comrades - one of the comrades came to me, said to me here is a white man called Barnard, they said to me no they have shot the wrong one, they didnt intend to shoot this one. We said no, this is not the one that we were looking for, the one that we are looking for is at Crossroads. 

MS GOBODO

Excuse me mamma Zongisile was now in hospital, you saw Zongisile sleeping in - in hospital.

MS GWEDLA

Yes, then I was told to wait a while.

MS GOBODO

So you didnt go in with him.





MS GWEDLA

Yes I did, but his doctor told me to leave and wait for him outside, so I waited for an hour because he couldnt speak. Now I had to identify him and tell people his name.

&#9;While I was still waiting three policemen came in, only one of them spoke to me. He asked who shot my son, they asked me to show them that he is the child with the clinical card. They said to me no we only picked up one, now I dont know whether he was just a little boy or a young man, so I left.

MS GOBODO

Was Zongisile in hospital?

MS GWEDLA

Yes.

MS GOBODO

Mamma I want this to be clear, when Zongisile was in hospital, did the police who shot him, followed him is that what you are saying?

MS GWEDLA

When I got into the hospital I was told that I should wait outside until his operation was over. I was told not to leave. I was told to wait. While I was waiting, I wasnt away alone, I was with other kids, now these children told me here is the policeman, saying that who is the person who shot Zongisile, he said there were two, where is the other one, there is the second one, so all these three policemen took this other one I dont know who he was. 

MS GOBODO

Mamma lets talk about Zongisile, lets leave the other one. About this policeman you called Barnard who came in, when he - this Barnard said he is - is he the one who shot Zongisile?

MS GWEDLA

No he said I want this person that I shot.

MS GOBODO

So this person Barnard said he is looking for Zongisile?

MS GWEDLA

Yes.

MS GOBODO

So you said yes Zongisile is in here we were trying to cover for him, we didnt want Barnard to take him. So Zongisile was actually saved by the fact that you said he is not in this hospital?

MS GWEDLA

Yes.

MS GOBODO

So please tell us how was he injured.

MS GWEDLA

He couldnt speak, some of the bullets were still inside - inside. I didnt go back and sign.

MS GOBODO

About his injury how much was it?



MS GWEDLA

He spent four days without being able to speak, you can see - you can see his arm right now its limping, he use to work, now he cannot work anymore. 

MS GOBODO

In the other statement that you gave us mamma you said you didnt know that he had bullets in his head. Please tell us about this bullet that is in his head.

MS GWEDLA

Then I didnt know that he had a bullet in his head, I was only informed about them when I got to the hospital, then I was asked to go and sign back. 

MS GOBODO

During these years you were with him you didnt know that your child has a bullet in his head.

MS GWEDLA

Yes I knew but I didnt want to sign for anything.

MS GOBODO

When did you realise this, did you know this then or you only found about this later.

MS GWEDLA

Its only now when I was taking him back to the hospital that I found out.



MS GOBODO

When, what year was that?

MS GWEDLA

No I dont know because I am not educated.

MS GOBODO

Please mamma estimate, was it after the 1985 incident?

MS GWEDLA

All I know is that its been 10 years since he has been injured.

MS GOBODO

Thank you, before I can hand you over to somebody else, I dont know if Zongisile want to say something. How did this change Zongisiles life. You have already told us that he doesnt work anymore, what are the other things that affected Zongisiles life?

MS GWEDLA

He has changed in every regard, even now he is too weak you would talk to him now and all of a sudden he will just get angry. Sometimes I cant even have a peaceful sleep because he doesnt come back at night.

&#9;The problem now is everybody who wants to bully anyone, they bully my son, even my husband left me because he couldnt - he couldnt stay with a abnormal child like this one. Everybody thinks that my son is abnormal, he doesnt know why did my abnormal child come to Cape Town, he calls him abnormal. He is even disgusting when he is eating.

MS GOBODO

As you are explaining this mamma it looks like there are other things that affected you.

MS GWEDLA

There are many things my child that are affecting me. Even in this Commission I told myself that I wish that he was dead, I would be happy if he was dead, but now I have to work and I have to care of such an old man. But sometimes when I am alone it becomes too much for me. I even went to Stellenbosch to his brother-in-law to help me out. 

MS GOBODO

It is obvious mamma that this incident had really put a heavy load on your shoulders because at the beginning you were being taken care of by your son, but all of a sudden now you have to take care of him and yet you are already now too old. Thank you mamma

CHAIRPERSON:

Thank you are there any questions, Mary - thank you mamma we apologise for this. Zongisile is there anything that you would like to say?

Please move the mike towards him.

MR KOPOLO

No there is nothing that I want to say, no I dont want to say anything.

CHAIRPERSON:

Okay then we better leave him. 

ZONGISILE DOES NOT WANT TO TESTIFY



CHAIRPERSON:

Thank you mamma, we thank you very much. 

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